Is Linux right for me?

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torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009


Hi all!

I'm considering switching to Linux, but not sure if it's really going to work out for me. I'm hoping someone experienced could look over this post and give me some tips, before I spend several days installing and configuring while unsure if I'll ever get to the finish line. Thanks in advance, and I promise to follow up!

== Who am I? ==

  • Very experienced Windows user. Very *very* accustomed to the Windows way of things.
    • - but getting tired of Windows installs&maintenance.
  • Zero Linux experience. Want to give Linux a fair chance - I just might like it! Have tried Wubi for a few hours but wasn’t hooked, willing to try again.
    • - but sceptical whether Linux means less maintenance -- for a Linux dummy like me!
  • NOT a programmer but familiar with programming concepts.

== Wants ==

  • Easy transition from Windows.
  • Installed stuff should "just work". Willing to download additional drivers for existing hardware, but will not purchase new hardware or write new drivers.
  • For sake of overview, I won't post detailed hardware information here. I can provide this later for specific driver discussion.
  • Don't want to have to enter command-line stuff. (Is this criterion a showstopper?!?)
  • Less is more - don’t want an ultimate-über-geeky-specialist-super-system. Don't want to spend much time "tinkering".

== Haves ==

  • Wife's PC has WinXP installed.
    • Won’t change to Linux as part of this experiment, but maybe later.
  • My PC
    • Reasonably modern PC, currently WinXP installed, and loads of special programs I know well and use a lot. Used only by me.
    • Tried Wubi (Ubuntu 9.04) but couldn’t get the display to output 1280x1024 (nVidia GeForce 8400GS). Willing to try again.
    • Absolutely essential software (besides obvious browser&office apps):
      • Apple iTunes must work, to sync with my iPhone 3G. (Another showstopper?!? Solutions?)
      • Ability to download photos from digital camera and mass-rename them (like cam2pc on Windows).
      • Offline money tracking and budgeting (like MS Money on Windows), not web-based.
      • Ability to print to a shared printer on wife's Windows machine.
      • I've seen this software for Linux:
        • Firefox, Picasa, Skype.
        • Also GIMP (hope to find something simpler, like PaintShopPro on Windows).
  • Media Center PC
    • Most important aspect: must be as easy to use as Windows Media Center, due to wife-acceptance-factor!
    • Always-on, serves as main TV and PVR, also plays video files (not recorded from TV). I rarely play DVD's.
    • 1280x720 video projector (HDMI), no monitor.
    • 5.1 surround (whenever the media provides it).
    • My RF remote for MCE must work.
      • On earlier Linux attempts, the RF remote wasn’t supported but I don’t want to switch to an IR remote, and I can’t program a driver for the RF.
    • Media center software:
      • Must be easy to select live TV from an EPG view, and mark items for recording (one-time and series).
      • Must be easy to select a recorded show to view, and to delete after viewing.
      • *No* need for music/jukebox/photos/slideshow/news/weather. Just TV/VCR.
      • Must be able to handle 2 tuner cards, each with analog&digital cable signal (PAL, not NTSC).
      • Must be able to handle EPG information from Austria (cable provider is Kabelsignal). US-based signal or content is irrelevant.

arochester
User offline. Last seen 9 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11/07/2008

"Apple iTunes must work, to sync with my iPhone 3G. (Another showstopper?!? Solutions?)" I think this is the killer. There are stories about iTunes working on Wine etc,... but there are also stories about how it doesn't work on Wine etc and can be an absolute pig.

If you have used Wubi and weren't greatly impressed I would suggest that you try dual-booting. Don't "throw out the baby with the bathwater". Don't get rid of Windows. Keep Windows, if only for your iTunes and put Linux separately on the Hard Drive as well. There is a good guide about dual-booting at http://apcmag.com/the_definitive_dualbooting_guide_linux_vista_and_xp_st...

If you want an easy, out of the box distro then look at Linux Mint - http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php. It's based on Ubuntu but it has all the "Restricted Drivers" installed and just ...well...works...

torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009

Thank you arochester for your quick feedback!
I was afraid that iTunes would be trouble... (it's not great on Windows either)

Your advice to keep Windows and dual-boot to Linux makes sense. I was considering not having Windows at all, but it's bound to be necessary for some things I guess, so dual-boot is good. Then I just have to resist the lazy temptation of going back to Windows all the time.

The link to APC is awesome, I'll be sure to follow that, in whatever variation I'll need.
One question about dual-boot, though -- would this be sensible:
- I could Install Linux on one drive, and Windows on another. Neither would have to know about each other, and then at boot choose what disk to boot from (press F8 at POST to select boot disk). With the Linux disk as default I just press F8 when I need Windows, and I don't have to go into the scary land of boot managers.
- Any arguments against this?

arochester
User offline. Last seen 9 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11/07/2008

"I could Install Linux on one drive, and Windows on another. Neither would have to know about each other, and then at boot choose what disk to boot from (press F8 at POST to select boot disk)"

Hmm. Don't know about that one . I dual boot from two Hard Drives. It's easier that way instead of partitioning one hard drive. You just tell Linux which disk to install to.

I have an orthodox load so that Windows is on sda and Linux is sdb - but Grub gets installed on the MBR (Master Boot Record) of sda. It's not a scary process because it's automatic. It can be easily undone with the fixmbr command.

I suppose you could do as you suggest if you were sure that Grub would be installed on the Linux disk for Linux only...

torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009

I've tried out Wubi (Windows setup that creates an Ubuntu installation on the same disk) again this evening. Here are my results so far. Unfortunately not very encouraging, but I'm not done yet.

Media Center PC:
Installed Mythbuntu using Wubi. I got as far as tuner set-up and then totally flunked. I'm not sure what Mythbuntu (or MythTV) normally looks like but I arrived a keyboard-only config "wizard" that I couldn't make any sense of, as it asked for a plethora of technical details I've never heard of before. So I didn't get my tuners or the remote working, or find any EPG data. There was no help and no obvious choices to try out. I think I need to find somebody to talk me through this in person.

My PC:
Installed Ubuntu using Wubi. That worked fine (just as you'd wish) and it found all hardware including the Nvidia 8400 GS but didn't offer 1280x1024 resolution so it looked rather fuzzy. It offered a driver version "180" that worked (fuzzy) and one version "173" (no image at all after reboot). Perhaps there's a newer driver, but I didn't find one.

Pity really -- it would have been great to get up and running with the elegant Wubi installation method. I'll need to try Mint as you suggested and see how well that works.

torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009

Perhaps I should think about this the other way round: Knowing what exact hardware I have, is there are way (or a list) to check compatibility before installing? Perhaps I could figure out which Linux flavor offer best chances for success.

It's weird to be experienced in Windows and then such an utter n00b in Linux :-)

arochester
User offline. Last seen 9 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11/07/2008

"is there are way (or a list) to check compatibility before installing?"

1) You could try different distros using LiveCDs to find out if one detected your hardware. A list of LiveCDs is at http://www.livecdlist.com/

2) There is an Ubuntu list at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/

torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009

Excellent, thank you very much arochester!

Edit: I've browsed the pages you mentioned and also links to further info, and it looks very promising, at least for my desktop PC. I'll try some of the live CD's concerning the Media Center.

arochester
User offline. Last seen 9 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 11/07/2008

For Media Center do try GeeXboX - it's not as geeky as it sounds - http://geexbox.org/en/index.html

Ali Ross
User offline. Last seen 8 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/09/2008

Hey arochester! Are you forgetting the ULNG has a very popular video tutorial showing exactly how to dual boot your PC with Windows XP and Ubuntu right here?

http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org/content/new-video-tutorial-how-install-ubuntu-810-windows-five-easy-steps

With regards to using MythTV (Mythbuntu) for your Media PC setup, are you in the UK? If so, check out this link for some handy advice. I have MythTV running on a pretty similar setup to you. There were a couple of major stumbling blocks for me that were not apparent, and I hate to admit it but it is definitely not ready for newbie territory yet which is a real shame. The first stumbling block is that you have to run a script to download the Hauppage firmware from their website, or take it off the Windows driver CD, then you have to place that in a specific directory and point a config file to it before it will talk to the tuner in the card. Secondly, I am using Freesat and I had to get all the EPG data from RadioTimes. This cannot be done by the GUI system, even though it looks like it can, you have to manually run a script and set it up the first time. All of this is explained on the above link AFAIR but it's a bit of a stinker to be honest. Once you've gone through that hurdle MythTV is great and I got rid of a 60 pound a month SKY HD subscription to get Free HD sattelite tv with MythTV, but it's not without a bit of hard work at the start! I believe MythTV is -getting there- but it's not yet suitable for mom and pop users. If you want further help after you read the stuff on the above link then drop me a PM and I'll see if I can help you out via skype from the recesses of my memory!

I'm really bewildered at the problems you are having with your Nvidia 8400GS. I have the EXACT same card and it works perfectly fine under Ubuntu 9.04. I simply went into the restricted drivers manager, chose the Nvidia restricted driver and agreed to it. I installed it and rebooted the machine and all worked fine since then on, so this fuzzyness you talk of is very weird indeed. Are you 100% sure there is nothing hokey with the card or connectors it's self? The Nvidia cards (pretty much all of them are very compatible with Linux, the ATI ones don't have such a good rep, but Nvidia, no problems).

All the best,

 

Ali Ross

ULNG Author

 

torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009

Thank you both for this info! I have some tasks ahead of me now! :-)

Concerning the Nvidia 8400 GS, it's fuzzy because my Ubuntu 9.04 outputs 1024x768 on my 1280x1024 display. I went to System--Preferences--Display to change it and get the following. First comes a dialog "It appears your graphics driver does not support the necessary extensions [...] Use your graphics driver vendor's tool instead?"
--> I click Yes and get a dialog "Nvidia X server settings". I see the driver version is 180.44. I can choose odd resolutions: 1360x768, 1152x864, 1024x768 ... and lower. I notice that 1280x1024 is not listed, but don't understand why?

Ali states that you "went into the restricted drivers manager, chose the Nvidia restricted driver and agreed to it."
--> Where is the "Restricted drivers manager"? I've found System--Administration--Hardware Drivers, which contains a notice that "proprietary drivers are being used..." and Nvidia version 180 is active and in use. Can you give me pointers based on this?

I also went to Nvidia's homepage and downloaded a newer driver to my desktop, named "NVIDIA-Linux-x86-185.18.36-pkg1.run". Double-clicking it just starts a text editor though, so I haven't done anything further. I don't know how to use this newer driver.

torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009

I've just installed GeeXboX (they even have a Windows Installer like Wubi, so it was really easy). The 64-bit version of geexbox doesn't generate a "kernel panic" during boot so I was able to get into the main menu -- but the tuners aren't there and no apparent way to configure them. I'm such a noob... :-)

I was very surprised that my RF remote worked; I could use the arrow keys+Enter to navigate the geexbox menu. I could also run recorded video, and nearly fell off the couch as it played at 100% volume on my surround system... I've never turned off the power that fast :-)

I'd like to get Ubuntu & MythTV running on the media center PC. I somehow think that's one of the most widely used combinations so it would be smart to follow along.

Next up:
I'll install plain Ubuntu using Wubi on the media center and then, from inside Ubuntu, see if I can get MythTV installed.

torbengb
User offline. Last seen 46 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/31/2009

Update:

On the media center, I've installed Mythbuntu on top of Ubuntu but there's a problem with the database not being present. I've posted about this problem on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1258801 -- just stating it here to inform of my progress.

On my own pc, I've still not managed to get 1280x1024, but apart from that the system is running fine. I'm impressed!

Ali Ross
User offline. Last seen 8 weeks 6 days ago. Offline
Joined: 08/09/2008

The restricted drivers manager is the same thing as what you are talking about - propriatery drivers. You can use the command line Nvidia tool, but you should be fine without it.

What sort of screen are you using? LCD? CRT? Laptop screen, widescreen etc?

Can you go to the Terminal and type xrandr, copy and paste the results here to see if 1280x1024 is listed at all. This is pretty odd to be honest.